What is hanging in the balance?

Seems very true to me!

Hi C4C :) 
True for me as well.  The energy behind our actions is vital, especially as our collective consciousness increases and our work becomes more subtle.  Love is the only force great enough to move mountains and nations.  Tension, no matter the 'justification', is tension, and it blocks love.  Let us be diligent yet peaceful and allow Spirit to move more.

Beautiful!

This is the kind of wisdom that I believe in.

Thanks,
Mark

A big Yep to all the above.

Namaste, OM Bastet

UH HUH!

Love One Another…

“All you are asked to do is to go within and dedicate yourself to peace.”
I find the quote disturbingly shallow and inadequate to the complex issues we face in the world today. Sure, being 'anti' this and 'anti' that is not the answer either. But we do need both and inner commitment AND an outer commitment. The inner spiritual commitment is not only to attain peace (though that is one aspect), but also to attain an inner fire, a profound non-dual perspective, a touching of the Ground of Being and a liberation from the preoccupations and distractions that keep us superficial and divided. But there has to be an outer commitment - a determination to engage fully in the world, to challenge injustice, to act skillfully and at times passionately, to speak out when there is wrong doing, to state a bigger perspective when others have settled for a smaller one, to enter into creative tension and to help others to hold the tensions of contradiction and disagreement, to contradict the norms. Peace is not enough. In fact there are times when peace is unskilful - peace can err on the edge of passivity and avoidance. I'm not advocating war, of course. But I'm advocating a much broader, deeper, sophisticated and Integral response than the above quote suggests.

Oh, a mite of creative tension. Excellent. Padmakara, your words were eloquent and your perspective one I strongly resonate with.

I am a voice in the wilderness of New Age folks as I preach that true peace and “non-egoic attachment” are not at all exclusive of passion and passionate action. Fully engaging, challenging, speaking out, etc. are actually a sign of truly nondual consciousness/beingness. Any either-or which suggests peace cannot be intense and active is still duality. Ken Wilber points out that the truly nondual is the most truly engaged, because there is nothing at stake so there is no holding back.

IMO one does not “attain” peace nor dedicate oneself to peace, nor does one “attain” a nondual perspective. They are one's already always true nature, and are only Realized. Once realized, peaceBeing automatically infuses everything, including vociferous, intense, committed PREFERENCES (not judgments) for the kind of world one wants to live in, the kind of behavior one tolerates in one's space, which is all space.

This simply arises, and the truly nondual does not resist passion arising any more than it would resist passivity and apathy and avoidance arising!! Except those seem to arise less often in nondual Realized folks, haha !!!

My agreement above was assuming that a true within-peace automatically leads to full engagement in the world, but it is true that those who “think” peace (rather than BEING peace) can err on the side of passivity and avoidance, because they think in either-or, and mistake those for peace !! True nondual peace never does that and is never unskillful.

The “peace that passes understanding” is not a feeling, not a perspective, not an experience, not a dedication. It is BEING. “I AM peace.” Thus, it infuses everything DONE, felt, experienced, thought. In that sense, peace IS “enough.”

Such an important point I am going to put this blog + comments into Collective Wisdom: The Library of Community Threads if no one objects, and if no one objects, anyone is welcome to go there and contribute this blog+comments after joining.

Is what I said compatible with your view, Padmakara? And I bet others above don't actually disagree….. But I await word(s.)

Blessings, OM Bastet

BTW in everything I said, one could just as easily substitute the word Love or unconditional love or Divine Love for the word Peace. They are both inherent in nondual Beingness, and both expressed as I AM that, in all actions after nonduality is Realized.

“If you transform yourself into a peacemaker, you won't become an activist marching in the streets. You will not be “anti” anything.

In the original quote above, there are ideas confused together, as I see it. One does not transform oneself into a peacemaker, ultimately, as I said, one becomes Peace, inherently Peace. It's not a transformation but a simple remembering, and one is not a peace MAKER one is a peace BE-er.

Then as I see it one is NOT anti-anything, because one is FOR peace and love, but there can be aspects of the world one works to reduce and others one works to amplify. But working to reduce something is not the same as “anti-” that is based on fear and anger. 

And who's to say whether one will become an activist marching through the streets or not? If there are activists marching not in fear or anger, but in peace and love as their Being, one could well march along. But of course, one would look long and hard to find any marchers like THAT, versus those in fear and anger, hostility, resistance, duality, judgment.
 
Blessings, Rev. O.M. Bastet 

1Vector3: thanks for your responses. Yes we are somewhat on the same wavelength. But I don't think you go far enough. The whole business of the 'non-dual' is tricky. I get the sense that the 'non-dual' has become an idol of the New Age. It becomes an avoidance of the hard facts of RESPONSIBILITY. 'The non-dual' becomes reified as some mystical reality.

I'm going to propose something that most people won't like at all: maybe we should think more dualistically.

Sensitive New Agers, neo-advaita practicioners and Mystics should leave the room at this point.

If there is anyone left - here is my point. If we continually reduce everything to the 'non-dual' then it is impossible to make wise distinctions and discriminations. It is not even about 'preferences' rather than judgements. There is a relative world and within this relative world there is relative though real suffering, relative though real injustice, relative though real prejudice. We can't flatten the differences between suffering and non-suffering, justice and injustice, prejudice and tolerance into a non-duality before we have made those dual distinctions. In the relative, dual world there is the necessity to grow, to act, to modify, adapt and change the world in the best way and with the utmost urgency.

How we do that will vary depending on each and evey individual. It might mean marching on Washington, or London, or Seattle; it might mean making ecological adjustments in our homes, it might mean going and getting therapy, it might mean making money and it might mean giving it away, it might mean running for president or it might mean coming up with clear ethical guidelines for our children, it might mean small acts of daily kindness. It might mean disagreeing. And sometimes it might mean getting angry.

But at all times the soul flies on the two wings of wisdom and compassion; the absolute and the relative. As the great old aphorism goes: “God grant me the strength to change the things I can change, the patience to accept the things I can't and the wisdom to discriminate between the two.” We can change things and we must - that is the path of responsibility and compassion. There are things we cannot change and we must accept that - that is the non-dual path of grace and divine receptivity. And the path of wisdom comes through intense practice of both pasionate individual action AND humble surrender to the transcendent or the divine.

Here's the paradox: the non-dual does not negate the dual.

“If you transform yourself into a peacemaker, you won't become an activist marching in the streets. You will not be “anti” anything. No money is required. All you are asked to do is to go within and dedicate yourself to peace.”

I don't know how wise and insightful ANY of my comments are, but I disagree with Deepak that all who march are anti-war. 

A growing number of loving and dedicated peace-marchers march because they are pro-peace, not anti-war.  Many folks become activists to march in love and peace and to share their hope and courage. 

Also, I question whether it is enough to just ”go within and dedicate yourself to peace.”  I think we must be living examples of the love and peace that we want to spread no matter how imperfectly we model that behavior.

I agree that anti-anything is not good, although I waffle here when I see politicians, hard-plastic packaging, and lima beans.

I was gonna add television gurus to my list, including Oprah, but I realized that was just me being a mean-Spirited, wise-assed Jarhead.

Interesting, Padmakara, I have re-read my post and don't see what I said that you would interpret as not going far enough as per your post after that. I do go that far, even if it's not clear from my comment.

Specifically,

I get the sense that the 'non-dual' has become an idol of the New Age.

I am not New Age and I have no idols to the best of my knowledge. In fact, I am quite the heretic wrt orthodox New Age, with over 40 major points of disagreement. And it has indeed become an idol for many.

It becomes an avoidance of the hard facts of RESPONSIBILITY. '

Nonduality avoids nothing, by definition, and in the truth of it. Those who mimic it, fall into one side of nondual, and they avoid responsibility.

The non-dual' becomes reified as some mystical reality.

Not by those who abide in realization of it, only by those for whom it is a concept.

I'm going to propose something that most people won't like at all: maybe we should think more dualistically.

I don't think this is necessary to get where you want to go.

Sensitive New Agers, neo-advaita practicioners and Mystics should leave the room at this point.

Oh good, I am none of the above. I have no affiliations at all.

If there is anyone left - here is my point. If we continually reduce everything to the 'non-dual' then it is impossible to make wise distinctions and discriminations.

I'm sorry this does not match anything about my understanding and experience of the nondual.
 
The nondual embraces everything. One cannot reduce everything to it, because it is already everthing. There is nothing outside it to be reduced to it.

However, many who toss around the term “nondual” and actually mean the Absolute, or Oneness, reduce everything to that, but that is only one “side” of what nondual truly means. This error of reducing everything to Oneness is why the term “not one” was invented to go with “not two.”

Wise distinctions and discriminations are totally compatible with a nondual awareness/Beingness because they actually do arise in folks, along with with failure to do so, and unwise distinctions and unwise discriminations. Everything that arises, arises in nonduality, it's just that some folks Realize that and others don't.

Those who RESIST making wise distinctions and discriminations when those arise in them, are no longer abiding in the REALIZATION of nondual Beingness/awareness, by the fact of resistance.

Far from making wise distinctions and discriminations impossible, I see nondual awareness as totally irrelevant to that matter. Some of us endorse that approach to living. So that arises. Some of us feel passionately moved to point out the advantages of living that way, to others. So that arises too. Some of us say others “should” live that way and go about teaching, preaching, advocating that way of living. That arises too. Some people refuse to live that way. That arises too. Some people don't give a darn one way or the other, they stay in apathy. That arises too.

We get to do what we do. All of that arises in nondual reality/Beingness/awareness.

That's why I use the term “preference.” I do not mean  to trivialize our choices. I mean the question of what nondual implies or requires makes possible or impossible is a nonesensical question. Whatever is, is an expression of or happens in the nondual which is reality itself, Beingness itself. So that's never the question, never the issue. The issue is, and I feel totally aligned with you, what are the hard choices of life and living? What are the important choices about life and living? How do we choose, and what do we say and do re others' choices? It's all up to us. It matters not who is or is not abiding in nondual awareness, that is just irrelevant, as I see the matter.

I hope that makes it clearer where I am coming from and why I feel aligned with you.
 
Gee I never was in the position before of arguing that I was in agreement. Generally I am arguing for a different view. Well, I guess we differ on whether I agree with you. LOL !!!!!!!!!

TextMage I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, at your vilification of lima beans !!!!!!  ROTFLMAO !!!!!

~C4, look what you started !!!!

Blessings, OM Bastet

Ah, OM, here I am, thanks to you, up late, wading through the fine points of Peace and Duality, inner work and outer action, and trying to come up with a wise and insightful comment, when I should be sleeping.  I won't claim this is more than my perspective, having traveled from real conflict to a definite hope of resolution recently.

Padmakara, the world needs your kind.  And the world needs the quiet knower, who goes into a realization that Peace ever exists, feels that deeply within their own self, and then watches their world literally change to align with that knowing, in an absolutely real way, beyond any action they personally take or can take credit for.  A heartfelt belief in possibility is surprisingly enough.  A trust in an impulse, larger than a single self, to take care of all the details.

There is need for the doer to carry out the knowing.  There is a need to know one's place in the expression of All That Is and willingly fulfill that role.

Both doing and knowing are aspects of wholeness, needed for the unfolding of a more desirable state (a judgement).  In my own experience, the difference between the old and new states were as night to day and the new was clearly supportive of life, harmony and a peaceful co-existence.  That it came to pass could almost be termed a miracle except that it occured so naturally.

Deborah

OM - that's great! You have me laughing that you have had to argue that you are in agreement with me! Isn't that crazy!

I really appreciate your response as you point out the limitations of my comments. (Probably some spiritual hubris lurking). I think I might have conflated 'non-dual' and 'absolute'. So thanks for that distinction.

You say: ”Whatever is, is an expression of or happens in the nondual which is reality itself, Beingness itself. So that's never the question, never the issue. The issue is, and I feel totally aligned with you, what are the hard choices of life and living? What are the important choices about life and living? How do we choose, and what do we say and do re others' choices? It's all up to us”.
That's probably a beautiful summary of our alignment and agreement!

Deborah - thank you for your beautiful comments, sincere and from the heart. Natural Miracles - now there's something to meditate on. A miracle is the natural state of affairs revealed to us in the midst of our persistent delusion that the mad world we normally live in is the natural state of affairs.

May we all be liberated into wholeness!

Padmakara, joy arises at your comments !!!

Deborah, thank you for your exquisite insights. Glad I lured you here, albeit not consciously doing so !!

Want to give people access to the particulars you referred to, your own experience of assuming responsibility which did not involve much outer activity, but which seems to have had quite an effect: http://yhd52754.gaia.com/blog/2008/9/overtures_of_war_in_our_peaceful_wilderness

That is the point, I think, of not either-or, not one kind of person or another. It would be hoped that everyone could realize that assuming responsibility, making choices, discriminating, making distinctions, are not different from or incompatible with being in The Flow (living in nondual Realization) and that everyone could also realize that taking responsibility, choosing, and being in the Flow does not result in particular predictable behaviors. The marcher and the meditator can both be Flowing. And both could be having the most profound and far-reaching effects on the external physical world. The way I describe it, there is “division of labor,” so both kinds of “action” are needed and some do one and some do another, and there are so many kinds of action. Embracing both as they arise, that's “wholeness,” yes, thanks for the word, Deborah.

Not two, but also not one. That's what that means, to me. That's “wholeness,” yes.

You're onto something, Deborah. Sometimes it seems to me that everything which “occurs naturally,” which is everything, is actually a miracle, had we but eyes to see it that way.
 
Blessings, OM Bastet

Yikes, I lied, from forgetting I actually did suggest you check out this blog, Deborah !!

:)
OM

As I said in an other place thoughts are the strongest power in our universe. We manifest eveything  what we think. We are responsible for everything in our own life.
If we are marching for peace that means we are against war. If we are against war the war will always come back to us because everything we are against will come back to us till we accept it. If we give thoughts in a war- situation we give more energy in this war-situation and the war still goes on. We should not be against the war and not be for the war. We only should concentrate on Peace Love and Light. We can give as much Love and Light in Peace as possible and then Love and Light will do theyr work and Peace will get stronger and stronger and war will get smaller and smaller.
We can`t change other people through talking we can only change our self. We can show others that we are peaceful and loving and through that the others will change them self.

Love and Light

          Eckart

Eckart, true we can't change other people through talking, but we can influence people to change through talking. I can say this becasue it is true in my own experience. And sometimes what others talk about has a BIG effect. In fact I have heard people talk and it has changed me there and then! It is like a new perspective suddenly opened up - the world is seen in a different way and I am changed.
Perhaps though you are meaning 'talking at' or talking in a coercive way. I which case I agree - not useful, in fact definately counter-productive.

But I do agree with you that the power of example does really help others to change themselves. But it is not just the demonstation of peace and love - we can show others that we are courageous, patient, willing to speak out, active in the face of inertia, clear in our intentions, pro-active, persistent, responsible, Though you could say that all of those are manifestations of love.

Fire & Passion

Padmakara, I agree with you eventually  that we could influence each other. We know a little through our schooling in mystic and some more.
I have much trouble in my work to influence people or somewhere else. When I talk for example from meditation they will laugh or say that is woodo or something else. If I tell them our thoughts are the strongest power in our universe they should watch their thoughts they will smile. There is only one man in our team who changed from always being negativ to smiling more and more through my influence I hope.
To talk with people who are not awake is really hard I think. I beliefe the only way to influence those people is by our example and by meeting we will ignite their inner light if  their soul does agree.
You said you changed when you heard  people talk. Of course, we are open to change. When we went to Kriya Yoga and our Gurus talked that changed us for sure.First  of all through their high consciousness and with their light and with their knowledge.
But I believe more and more people are getting open for talk now because 2012 is coming soon.
Kryon said once : “We will be surprised who is sitting next to us in our ascend”.
I hope there will be many many people.

Love and light

      Eckart

if you want peace you must prepare for war…

we only need look to the activism of Dr. Martin Luther King jr. for evidence ot this fact…without activism…and of course all those that willingly died for the cause…we would not be where we are today…concerning major issues like prejudice, womens rights, cival rights…i could go on and on…while it may be nice to meditate in a cave in Tibet somewhere, and get in touch with your own inner peace…there comes a time when you must take the awareness of that…and integrate it on a larger scale…just ask Norbu…he is from Tibet…and while everyone was meditating…China came…if we are not paying attention to larger worldspaces, we can become consumed by them…in a very unpleasant way…of course, this may very well have to happen…for society as a whole…to wake up to the larger worldspaces that it tends to ignore…

much love and joy…always, star…

This blog+comments is now in the Collective Wisdom: Library of Community Threads. Anyone can go there and talk about how great it is. Comments about the actual topic here should stay here.
 
Thanks to all !!

OM Bastet